Episode Fourteen | Strong Start: Building Your Foundation in the Workplace with Kate Janson
Hosted by Beth Bender and special guest Kate Janson
Beth Bender
So we're here for another episode of TopBranch, and today I am so excited because I get the enjoyment and the honor of talking to Kate Janson, who you might recognize that last name. Yes, she is Ruth Ann Janson's daughter. And Kate and I had a chance to sit down together actually over the holidays with Ruth Ann, and we were chatting about things that she has learned over her, just beginning of her career in the workplace, and working with clients, and being client-facing. That is a difficult thing for somebody straight out of college to know, you know, what are the things that you... What are in bounds when you're you know, when you're client-facing? And what is the right thing to wear? And all of these questions. And it was interesting because as Kate and I talked, I also was thinking about things that I've heard from so many seasoned professionals and designers who have said, "We're hiring these energetic, wonderful young men and women, but there's things that they just don't know, and we don't know how to tell them without offending them." And so I thought let's just address it head-on and just jump right in on some of those things that young professionals might need to know, or a seasoned professional might just wanna go, "Hey, new employee, why don't you just watch this little TopBranch and then come to me with questions?" So, Kate, let's start. What surprised you most when you started your new career and you were going to be client-facing? Kind of what was the biggest surprise in being in a role where you were client-facing?
EARLY CLIENT FACING EXPERIENCE
Kate Janson
I would say... And then just by a little bit of introduction, I do work in finance, so I was having some experiences where I was thrown in, honestly, less than, like, a year into my job, now I'm almost two years into my job, where I was in cars or in meetings with C-suite executives. And I think that's... The most challenging thing I realized was I had to get kind of comfortable in silence sometimes.
Beth Bender
Mm. That's a good one.
Kate Janson
I think it's important to keep the conversation going, and keep everything friendly and entertained, and show that you're knowledgeable about a company you're working with or a client that you're working with. But I think it's also okay sometimes to know everyone wants a little bit of silence sometimes. Sometimes people need to check their emails, do other things at certain times, so I think I needed to get comfortable with that, and I think that's also something that would go into even when I'm in meetings with my direct manager that I work with internally, and things like that. And I think that's also important to know when you're a younger professional like myself. I think that kind of goes into a little bit of humility too, in knowing that you are not the most knowledgeable person in the room. So I think that that's also something to take into account and something that I leaned on in some of my earlier meetings, and I still do now, too.
Beth Bender
That's such a good point about being comfortable in the silence. And so when you are in those conversations with, somebody that's in the C-suite, or a president of a company, or your client's very important client, tell me some of the things that you felt was needed to build trust with that person especially if they're decades older than you.
Kate Janson
Mm-hmm. I think it can definitely depend on the job, and also depends on your relationship. Because some meetings I was thrown into, I had, like, been on the phone or, like, on Zoom with them, so they knew a little bit about me and who I was. But, I mean, I think the number one rule goes back to... And obviously I don't work in sales, but I think knowing your client is, is really important. And that can go into the odds of if they're a client or if it's just, like, a management team you're working with and things like that. I think showing that you're knowledgeable about who they are and what they do is really important, like, for their company, but also just them as a person. I think I kind of try to keep up a little bit, especially as a, a younger person in the workforce, with who their children are, maybe, like, where they go to school, if they have... where they go on vacation, things like that I think are easier things to bring up in conversation if it's lacking a little bit. But I think it also shows that you put in the effort to kind of know more about them, and that you care about them giving you your time too.
Beth Bender
Yeah. That's great. That's great. So how do you handle it when a client asks you something you don't know the answer to? And you've already brought up humility, which I thought was a wonderful thing to bring up, but how do you handle it when you don't know the answer?
Kate Janson
I mean, I think that's a tough situation because you wanna be able to know the answers to everything surely, like, when you get asked these, these sorts of questions in any industry, but I think giving the answer that you don't know the answer is okay sometimes, and I think I kind of will fall back on, "Let me follow up with that with my manager," or, "Let me look into that a little bit," or, "Let me check some of my..." For me, it's usually, like, an Excel model or something like that. Like, "Let me check in and I'll get back to you" because I think it's always safer to say that rather than giving them an answer that might not be full or complete or, worst case, might not be true.
Beth Bender
Right.
Kate Janson
So I think that it's easier to lean on the safe situation with that, versus kind of giving them something random just off the top of your head.
Beth Bender
Have you ever had a client or an individual react negatively to you when you've done that, when you've just been honest and said, "Let me get back to you?" Have you ever had somebody really just surprise you and be, be ugly about it or push back on you or, or anything like that?
Kate Janson
Not necessarily. I mean, I feel like I kind of was surprised by that. I think people would rather appreciate you putting in more time to get things right, versus giving them something quick. So I haven't necessarily had experience with that. But, I think that's... Yeah, that's what I would say. I think that they definitely appreciate you putting more time into it.
Beth Bender
That's great. So don't be scared. [laughs]
Kate Janson
Yeah.
Beth Bender
Don't be scared to say, "I don't know." [laughs]
Kate Janson
Yeah.
PROFESSIONAL PRESENCE, FEEDBACK & WORKSPACE GROWTH
Beth Bender
All right. I'm going to go to something a little bit more on the vanity side, and you know, you're obviously going to be talking from the female perspective, but also, if you have any, have any tips for, for the men that might be watching this. But what is your go-to outfit formula for when you are going to be client-facing, client-facing versus just a regular office day? I feel like we get asked that question all the time by young professionals.
Kate Janson
Yes. I mean, I think it definitely depends on the role, but what's nice is that the company I work for, I'm at an investment bank, so it's actually not as buttoned up sometimes as you would think it would be. Maybe more like a corporate bank would be. So it's nice that sometimes I can wear darker jeans to work with a nice work blouse or a sweater or something like that. I think it's nicer when you're comfortable, and you're just at the office with your coworkers and things like that. But when I'm at meetings that are client-facing or with management, I'm usually in a dress with heels too. I'll usually wear flats to work on a normal day. I also live in the city, so you have to take commuting into perspective. But yes, usually when I'm with management, I'll be wearing a dress in the summer like about knee-length, longer. You know the rule. When you put your hands down you want it to be fingertip length especially in a business setting. But yeah, when it's colder out too, it's usually dress pants, and then I think having a jacket too is great. A jacket to throw over a dress is great, too. Having a collar, I think adds a lot of extra professionalism. So yeah, that's usually, that's usually what I lean towards.
Beth Bender
That's great. That's great. I know that will be a question, I bet you, of this whole interview. If, if young professionals are watching this, they'll be flipping and saving that section of this- [laughs] ... of this interview. Because we do get asked that a lot by young professionals that are starting. What do I wear? What's the... You know, how do I build a wardrobe, a professional wardrobe, etc. So, tell me this: How do you handle it when you get some direct feedback, maybe tough feedback, from a manager and especially when it stings. Kind of especially when you're like... "Oh, I'm not used to that. I'm, I'm used to being excellent in everything." How do you handle that feedback?
Kate Janson
I mean, I think it's important to tell your manager, too, up front. Like, getting feedback is a good, is a great thing. It's awesome to get positive feedback, but it's also awesome to get negative feedback or constructive feedback so that you can be a better worker in general. So I feel like I kind of had to switch my mind on that, knowing that getting negative feedback is a good thing. Because we all wanna be better at our job at the end of the day. So I think that it's important to look at it from that way. But yeah, I think humility is a big thing. I think it's, honestly, should be easier, too, for younger people in the workforce to be more humble, because you really don't know anything compared to all the other people at your company. Whether it's smaller or bigger, there's going to be people that are older than you. So I think it's important to be humble and know that you're still figuring everything out. You're figuring out how to do everything the best way, whether it's processes, whether it's in-person interactions with management, with clients, with even your coworkers. You're still figuring out. So I think it's almost easier to be humble, because you know that you don't have all the experience that everyone else does. But yes, I think telling your manager that you welcome feedback. I'm sure a lot of them probably do give feedback anyway. But just opening the door to that allows for better conversation and a better relationship with your manager, and I think it also just allows you to figure out how you're going to be a better worker. Even if you're perfect most days-
Beth Bender
[laughs]
Kate Janson
... there's always something that you can work on. So yeah, I think I've always welcomed it out for my manager and I appreciate that, too.
SELF-ADVOCACY IN THE WORKPLACE
Beth Bender
That's great. How do you, how do you advocate for yourself, both with your coworkers and with management?
Kate Janson
I think that can be a little bit tougher, especially as a younger professional. I think best showing that you are advocating for yourself is just showing that you're knowledgeable and also showing up on time, checking all the boxes that you can. Because even if you're not the most tenured person there or you're not the highest up, you don't, you don't know everything that's going on, I think kind of checking those easy boxes just shows that you advocate for yourself. So yeah, being on time-
Beth Bender
Love that.
Kate Janson
... and when you're dressing, you're fitting. When, how you dress, when you show up, you're fitting the bill there. So I think those can kind of just show how you think of yourself and how you want to present yourself, and are more important I feel like than I originally thought when I started working.
Beth Bender
Those are really great points. I do think it's those small boxes. It's those like you just said, the easy boxes that sometimes, you know, we see young professionals, they don't, they're not seeing the importance of that, and it's the big picture.
Kate Janson
Yeah, you got to do everything.
Beth Bender
You put all those little boxes together, and it actually is a really big, it's a really big box to check off. So I appreciate you bringing that up. All right, so my last question for you, is what do you wish someone had told you before your very first client interaction?
Kate Janson
I think it kind of goes back to dealing with silence a little bit and uncomfortableness. I think I wish someone would've told me that sometimes it's better just to be quiet, sit in the corner, and observe, and I think that that can be different depending on what kind of area you're working in. I think it's definitely more prevalent in finance and bigger business roles like that because, yeah, it all comes back to the humility thing, too. I mean, you definitely don't know everything compared to everyone else in the room, so I think I wish someone would've told me that it's probably better just to get there on time, be there, be present, show that you're listening and attentive, and that you know what's going on. But you don't always need to be speaking up necessarily on certain things to be advocating for yourself. I think you can show how much confidence you have in a lot of other ways, and I think that speaking up more in, like, certain client meetings, meetings with management, whatever you're doing on the daily will come more with the job and as you get older, but yeah, I think that, I think that's probably what I wish I would've known.
Beth Bender
That's great. Well, we always end these episodes with a quote. And I have a great quote, and I'm just going to say it. But this is not the quote that we're going to have for this episode, because I had a brand-new quote that came to my head while we were doing this episode of TopBranch. So the quote that I had was by Eleanor Roosevelt, and it's, "No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." And I think that's important for young people: to know that you might not know as much, you might not be as seasoned, but that doesn't mean you're inferior.
Kate Janson
Right.
Beth Bender
And you need to go in with confidence. But, and this is the quote that we're going to go with for today, because I think you've said this multiple times, and this is going to be the first time that in a TopBranch episode we have used a quote from the person that we're interviewing.
Kate Janson
[laughs]
Beth Bender
But we are going to go with today's quote is just simple, "Be humble." And that is a quote by Kate Janson, the famous Kate Janson.
Kate Janson
[laughs]
Beth Bender
[laughs] So our quote today is be humble, and we cannot thank you enough for taking your time out of your workday and sharing this knowledge. I'm sure it will be much appreciated. So thanks again, and have a great, have a great day, everyone. We'll see you on the next TopBranch.