Episode Nineteen | Staying In Your Lane

In this episode, The Dove Agency's Ruth Ann Janson and Beth Bender dig into what it really means to "stay in your lane" as a designer who wears a lot of hats. Their conversation covers the risks of stepping outside your expertise, from procuring plumbing fixtures and approving contractor documents to taking on roles that don't fit your skill set, as well as when it makes sense to keep a hat on, like leaning on a background in marketing or finance. They also talk about weighing risks against benefits, avoiding competition and micromanagement when bringing on new hires, setting clear boundaries with clients, and building processes that let everyone on your team stay focused on what they do best.

Hosted by Ruth Ann Janson and Beth Bender

Introduction: Staying in Your Lane

Ruth Ann Janson

Hi, everyone. I'm Ruth Ann Janson, and this is...

Beth Bender

Beth Bender.

Ruth Ann Janson

And we are from The Dove Agency, back with another episode of TopBranch. Today, we are going to talk about the topic of staying in your lane.

Beth Bender

Something to do.

Ruth Ann Janson

Or, yes. [laughs]

Beth Bender

[laughs]

Ruth Ann Janson

And we, we like to talk about... I think we've used this phrase so many times that designers-

Beth Bender

Yeah.

Ruth Ann Janson

... wear a lot of hats. So today, we're kind of talking about which hats actually fit and maybe which ones you should take off, because it's not the best fit. So, we have a few examples we're going to go through, and we'll, as usual, try to have some easy takeaways from this short segment.

Knowing Which Hats Fit

Beth Bender

Yeah, absolutely. I think the first thing t- you know, as Ruth Ann said, is just to be, you know, confident in the fact that you can wear a lot of hats. I mean, that's one of the things-

Ruth Ann Janson

Yeah.

Beth Bender

... that makes designers great is that they can, they can multitask. They can you know, switch gears really quickly from needing to talk with a client to needing to talk with a contractor-

Ruth Ann Janson

Mm-hmm

Beth Bender

... to, you know, I mean, needing to do procurement or marketing or whatever else.

Ruth Ann Janson

[laughs] Yeah.

Beth Bender

But the problem comes when you are maybe not so skilled at something, or it's a hat that doesn't fit you and-

Ruth Ann Janson

Yeah.

Beth Bender

... you force it. You, you're like, "I'm going to do this." Or it's something that you think you should do because you hear other people are doing it, and it gets you into trouble. And so, you know, I think what we are most focused on right now is the risk associated with wearing a hat that doesn't fit you or doing something that is not in your lane.

Ruth Ann Janson

Yeah.

Procurement Risks with Contractors and Builders

Beth Bender

And then there's a lot of risk associated with that. And so, you know, just a couple of quick examples would be when you're working with contractors or builders. Like, that seems to be an area where we hear a lot of designers do get themselves into-

Ruth Ann Janson

Mm-hmm

 Beth Bender

... a tough situation because, you know, for example, they're thinking to themselves, "Well, I'm over here. I'm the one selecting all the plumbing fixtures," or, "I," you know, "I'm the one that's picking all the, you know, the decorative lighting," or whatever. And so, they want to be the ones to be able to order that. And the problem with that is, yes, you're going to be able to make the money on that, et cetera, et cetera, but what happens when you're the one that ordered all the plumbing fixtures, but then that plumb- those plumbing fixtures are handed over to the contractor? The contractor then is receiving them, dealing with them. Then the plumber's touching them.

 Ruth Ann Janson

Right, yeah. Plumbing-

 Beth Bender

And then all of a sudden-

 Ruth Ann Janson

Yeah.

Beth Bender

... you know, that plumbing fixture fails, or, you know, where does that risk fall? Because, you know, the reality is that based on where the contract terms are-

Ruth Ann Janson

Mm-hmm.

Beth Bender

... it really should probably be falling under the contractor. But you're the one that purchased it, so is that an area where maybe, you know, that's not necessarily staying in your lane.

Ruth Ann Janson

Yes.

 Beth Bender

Yes, you can, you know, make the money on the design and enjoy the, the fruits of that labor, but maybe, you know, not be the one that's procuring those specific details. So just an example around that. You know, it also comes to sometimes you know, we've got designers that are really competent when it comes to, um, being able to work with builders or contractors-

Ruth Ann Janson

Mm-hmm.

Beth Bender

... because they themselves-

Ruth Ann Janson

They came up in that world.

Beth Bender

... they came up in that world-

Ruth Ann Janson

Yeah, yeah.

Beth Bender

... or they have the skillsets in that, and they have... Some of them even have, you know, their own GC licenses-

 Ruth Ann Janson

Mm-hmm.

 Beth Bender

... or their build, you know, their build design firms.

 Ruth Ann Janson

Yeah.

 Beth Bender

That's a very different scenario. You know, that, those designers, they have the skillsets-

 Ruth Ann Janson

Mm-hmm.

 Beth Bender

... to be able to make some decisions-

 Ruth Ann Janson

That hat fits.

Beth Bender

That hat fits.

Ruth Ann Janson

[laughs]

Beth Bender

Versus a designer that maybe didn't come up in that world-

Ruth Ann Janson

Yeah.

Beth Bender

... and they're being sent, you know, documents to approve that they really shouldn't be approving, and they should be writing on those-

Ruth Ann Janson

Yeah.

Beth Bender

... those documents very clearly, you know, "I approve this portion. I don't approve this portion of this document," or whatever, because that's not something that they have the skillsets to be able to.

Ruth Ann Janson

Right. And again, this should be, you know, governed in a contract. I think-

Beth Bender

Yeah.

Ruth Ann Janson

... the idea is that sometimes, you know, in practicality, there's tasks that are being executed that are possibly outside of that contract-

Beth Bender

Yeah.

 Ruth Ann Janson

... or maybe this wasn't exactly included as it should've been.

 Beth Bender

Yeah.

Ruth Ann Janson

So it's just knowing where your skills start and where they end-

Beth Bender

Yep. 

When a Hat Fits: Leveraging Your Background

 Ruth Ann Janson

... and just kind of trying to be purposeful about that. And, you know, the opposite side of that coin is we have a l- several designers that are clients of ours that have actually grown up in sort of the agency world.

 Beth Bender

Yeah.

 Ruth Ann Janson

So for example, they do have marketing skills. 

Beth Bender

Mm-hmm.

Ruth Ann Janson

And that's not something that they need to outsource necessarily, or that is actually their lane. They have that experience, and there's a lot of, you know, economies, be economical to do that work-

Beth Bender

Yep.

Ruth Ann Janson

... on your own if you have that background. And that-

Beth Bender

Yep.

Ruth Ann Janson

... that's, that's an example we see a lot. One we don't see quite as often-

Beth Bender

[laughs]

Ruth Ann Janson

... although we have seen this, we've had a few designers that actually grew up more on the accounting, financial consulting side. And so, if that's the case, you know, jumping into your numbers, you know, maybe not exactly doing your own bookkeeping, but definitely doing your own kind of consulting and operational procedures, et cetera, you're going to have the wherewithal to do that, and that's-

Beth Bender

Yep.

Ruth Ann Janson

... not outside of your lane. So that's an example of a hat that probably makes sense for you to keep on, at least-

Beth Bender

Mm-hmm.

Ruth Ann Janson

... in some extent, because that can save you a lot of money.

Beth Bender

Yep. And there's not a real... There's not, there's not a lot of risk associated with that.

Ruth Ann Janson

Right.

Weighing Risks and Benefits

 Beth Bender

So, and, you know, going back to thinking of all these hats you wear and going, "If I put this hat on and I wear this hat, what are the risks associated with that?"

 Ruth Ann Janson

Yes.

 Beth Bender

You know, because-

Ruth Ann Janson

And benefits.

Bath Bender

And the benefits.

Ruth Ann Janson

And the benefits, right.

Beth Bender

Yeah, the risks and the benefits. Because if you look at that and you were like, "Oh, the risks associated with that are going to way outweigh-

Ruth Ann Janson

Yes

Beth Bender

... those benefits," you need to, you need to think about not-

Ruth Ann Janson

Not doing that.

Beth Bender

... not doing that and not, not running in that race.

Staying in Your Lane When You Hire

Ruth Ann Janson

In that race, exactly. And I think another one to think about is sort of, like, when you're ready to hire somebody-

 Beth Bender

Mm-hmm.

Ruth Ann Janson

... and kind of how to stay in your lane when you bring on either another designer or maybe it's somebody more in an administrative role, and how do you kind of keep the things that maybe you were doing too much before and making sure you put on their plate what's proper-

Beth Bender

Yeah.

Ruth Ann Janson

... and keeping those lanes established for you and your new hire.

Beth Bender

Yeah.

Ruth Ann Janson

Like, what are some things that you would recommend in that regard?

Beth Bender

Yeah. I mean, I think the big thing is when you hire somebody, don't get into a situation where you're in competition with them.

Ruth Ann Janson

[laughs]

Beth Bender

So, you know, we see a lot of people that they'll buy, you know, they'll hire another designer, and those two designers end up kind of almost like they're in competition for-

Ruth Ann Janson

Yeah.

Beth Bender

... who's, you know, who's coming up with the best, you know, solution for this area or that area, and instead of being in collaboration with one another.

Ruth Ann Janson

Mm-hmm.

Beth Bender

And, you know, to be on the front end setting up your firm with some of those boundaries and some of that-

Ruth Ann Janson

Right.

Beth Bender

... structure, then when you bring somebody on, you'll be able to say, "This is how my firm works. We all stay in our lane. We all know what we're doing, and we're governed by both documents and a set of, a set of rules and boundaries." So-

Ruth Ann Janson

Yeah, like processes and procedures-

Beth Bender

Yeah.

Ruth Ann Janson

... kind of in place and having that at the get-go. And I think the other thing that can happen, in addition to the competition, is what I was alluding to before, is maybe, you know, you hire somebody to be a procurement manager or an executive admin, and you're sort of tending to micromanage those things-

Beth Bender

Yes.

Ruth Ann Janson

... that you wanted so desperately to get off your plate, that there's a little bit of, you know, anxiety possibly about pushing those entirely on somebody else's plate. But that's part of being, you know, a good boss, is allowing things to get off your plate. You've hired these per- this person that supposedly has executive skills or, you know, procurement experience. That's their lane. Give them those tasks. And of course, you know, you're going to dip that, dip that toe in the pond lightly, but ultimately, the idea would be to get that all over to their plate. Otherwise, why are you hiring them?

Setting Boundaries with Clients

Beth Bender

Right. And finally, and we didn't even, we haven't even really talked about this much, but when you come up, you know, in a situation where you are in professional services, you are dealing with clients, and you're dealing with those clients' expectations. And those clients, a lot of times, they're going to have trouble staying in their lane. They're going to have trouble-

Ruth Ann Janson

That's a great point.

Beth Bender

They're going to have trouble-

Ruth Ann Janson

Yeah.

Beth Bender

... passing the baton to you and saying-

Ruth Ann Janson

Yeah.

Beth Bender

... "I trust you to make these decisions." And you have to figure that out from the very beginning-

Ruth Ann Janson

Mm-hmm.

Beth Bender

... of working with that client.

Ruth Ann Janson

Yeah.

Beth Bender

Otherwise, you're going to, again, be in competition with that client, or it's going to get contentious.

Ruth Ann Janson

Yes.

Beth Bender

Yeah.

Ruth Ann Janson

And to have a very clear-

Beth Bender

Mm-hmm.

Ruth Ann Janson

... process where you're doing these things, the client is only involved in these areas-

Beth Bender

Right.

Ruth Ann Janson

... kind of keep that delineation clear.

Beth Bender

Yeah.

Summary and Key Takeaways

Ruth Ann Janson

And I think just in summary, like, what we're trying to get across here is don't get over your skis. Like, we kinda talked about that in the area of, like, GC, builder-

Beth Bender

Yeah.

 Ruth Ann Janson

... et cetera. Don't get over your skis. But also, you know, don't be doing things that are sort of beneath as well.

 Beth Bender

Mm-hmm.

 Ruth Ann Janson

Like, I was giving examples of maybe doing too much admin-

 Beth Bender

Yeah.

 Ruth Ann Janson

... spending too much time in the procurement details. As the leader of your company, I mean, you should be focused on the big picture, business development, you know, client satisfaction, things of that nature.

Beth Bender

Right. And when you're starting off your firm, I mean, you know, you don't have the money to go-

 Ruth Ann Janson

Right.

 Beth Bender

... to go-

 Ruth Ann Janson

Right.

 Beth Bender

... you know, you know, outsource or to go hire some people. So, you are going to be in a situation where you're going to be doing a lot of things that aren't-

Ruth Ann Janson

Yeah.

Beth Bender

... comfortable for you. But, you know, again, think of it in terms of what can you do to just mitigate the risk of doing something that is not in- 

Ruth Ann Janson

That's not-

Beth Bender

... in your skill set.

Ruth Ann Janson

Mitigating the risk and amplifying your benefits.

Beth Bender

Yeah.

Ruth Ann Janson

So the takeaways would be yield when it's too risky-

Beth Bender

Yeah.

Ruth Ann Janson

... and doesn't make sense. Do it yourself when there can be some economic benefit of that and you have the skill set. And then when you're hiring either internally or pushing something to a third-party provider for bookkeeping, et cetera, or something of that nature, you know, make sure that you have those protocols and processes-

Beth Bender

Mm-hmm.

Ruth Ann Janson

... in place such that those individuals are allowed to properly stay in their lane.

Beth Bender

Right.

Closing Quote

Ruth Ann Janson

Yeah. And I think that's, that's going to be the end today. We always like to give a little quote, and this one is from Steve Jobs. "You think focus is saying yes. No. Focus is about saying no."

Beth Bender

Yes.

Ruth Ann Janson

Stay on task. Don't wear too many hats, and we'll see you next time on TopBranch.

Beth Bender

Bye.

Susan Nichol