Episode Sixteen | Finding And Retaining Talent

In this episode of the TopBranch podcast, co-hosts Ruth Ann Janson and Beth Bender interview team members Natalie Forehand and Blair Ryan from The Dove Agency to discuss strategies for finding and retaining talent. The guests share their personal career trajectories within the firm, detailing how they successfully navigated major life milestones by maintaining open communication and utilizing the company's flexible work environment. Additionally, the conversation highlights valuable advice on balancing salary against flexibility, building strong peer-to-peer relationships, and thriving within a remote agency structure.

Hosted by Ruth Ann Janson and Beth Bender

Ruth Ann Janson

Hi, everyone. We are back again for another episode of TopBranch, and I'm Ruth Ann Janson, and I'm here with my business partner, Beth Bender.

Beth Bender

Hello.

Ruth Ann Janson

Beth, give a little wave if they don't know you.

Beth Bender

Hello. [laughs]

Ruth Ann Janson

[laughs] And we have two very special guests today. We have Blair Ryan and Natalie Forehand, both at The Dove Agency, and we are talking about the topic of finding and retaining talent. And when we first kicked this idea around, we were thinking about bringing in somebody outside to interview, and then we started thinking, "Why don't we interview our own team?" Blair has been with the firm almost five years. Natalie has been here a whopping seven and a half years. So we thought we would just kind of kick around, like, what's working for them as young professionals, and just kind of share the wealth of knowledge from their perspective. So let's kick it off, and Natalie, why don't you kind of respond to this, and then Blair just kind of jump in whenever it makes sense. But when you first started, kind of with your career, what things were extremely important then versus things that have become more important over this kind of seven-and-a-half-year tenure? And, kind of the follow-up to that is, how do you kind of expect a firm that you're or that where you're working to kind of give and take with you as you move along that career continuum?

Career Trajectory and Evolving Life Stages

Natalie Forehand

Yeah. No, that's a great question. So I think I've had a lot of personal growth since I have started at The Dove Agency. I started actually as an intern in my last semester of college, so I very much, I don't even know that I know what I wanted out of my career. The Dove Agency was incredibly, I mean, we're still small, but very small at the time. So, I was eager and excited. I was really, like, the marketing team in and of itself was, what, four of us. So, I had my hands in kind of all the things, which was a really unique opportunity for someone of my age to be able to work on so many different parts of the business on the marketing side.

Beth Bender

We trusted you very early. [laughs]

Blair Ryan

[laughs}

Natalie Forehand

I don’t know if it was trust-

Beth Bender

Like fairly early on.

Natalie Forehand

... or just all hands on deck. But I got a lot of experience-

Beth Bender

Yes.

Natalie Forehand

...very early on. I was really eager to learn all of those different things. I had you know, got my degrees in public relations and advertising, but really got to work my skills in kind of the overall marketing side of the business, and so once I was, you know, kind of into a couple years in, Beth and everybody came to me so kindly and told me I really needed to pick a lane and decide [laughs] what I wanted to do here at the firm. We had grown quite a bit at the time, and so, it wasn't as crazy all hands on deck on everything, and so this was around the time that I had gotten engaged, I was at The Dove Agency, and I've been here as I got married and got pregnant with my first child, and so things have changed quite drastically. I've always been someone that wants to have a career and really sharpen my skill set and continue to grow, but as everyone knows, as a young, as young moms, those goals do change a little bit. I still am always the type of person that wants to work and wants to have a career and wants to grow in that aspect of my life, but kids did change that. And so having the ability to come to Beth at the time, even, and say, you know, "I want to continue to grow, and I want to stay at The Dove Agency, and I want to do these things, but I also don't want to miss this, very, very small gap of time that I'm going to have with my kids. And it was very much a conversation at that time, which I think, like, meant more. I mean, it, that in and of itself, and it wasn't just like a no, like, this is how it's going to be, and, and this is how we need you, and this is what it's going to look like. It was really, like, a sit-down conversation of, like, okay, you're expressing that you'd like, you know, maybe to adjust your role a little bit, have a little bit more time with your kids. How can we make this work to where our clients are happy, work is getting done at the level that it always has been, but you're also, like, getting the opportunity to spend some time with, you know, your newborn baby that's not-

Ruth Ann Janson

Right.

Natalie Forehand

... you know, just a very short maternity leave, as it, you know-

Ruth Ann Janson

Right.

Natalie Forehand

... everyone gets in the country. So-

Ruth Ann Janson

Right.

Natalie Forehand

... it's very much changed throughout the years, like, in the most positive way possible.

Ruth Ann Janson

That, I think that's interesting, because I wonder if, you know, as you come into a role, if you're always thinking so far down the line that this role needs to be flexible, and the answer is probably no, but that is probably something that people should be considering as they enter the workforce, especially on the younger side of, like-

Natalie Forehand

Mm-hmm.

Ruth Ann Janosn

... what could this morph into?

Natalie Forehand

Mm-hmm.

Ruth Ann Janson

And then on, Blair, to add to that, you had a little bit more experience coming into the firm, and you were, had different reasons for coming and then staying, so kind of give your trajectory as well as it relates to that.

Blair Ryan

Yeah. Yeah. Leaving public accounting, I was definitely looking to slow down a little bit, while still being challenged and giving me opportunities to grow, just in a different way. And I think to echo from Natalie's perspective, you know, I started, and I had just gotten married and didn't have any kids, but being able to navigate the role and how that's changed, I think there's such a benefit being able to have those conversations and navigate the life changes with people who have understood and have navigated it already. You know, coming to you all and saying, I need to tweak this, you know, this might be a little slower, but I can turn around faster on here, and having it fall on ears who understand and have been there before just made it such a different conversation than some conversations that I've had previously at work, and I think that was a huge benefit as well.

Ruth Ann Janosn

Well, that's a great... I love to hear that. And just as a follow-up to that, like, how would you, if you know, give advice in terms of somebody looking to add a new position in measuring sort of salary versus work-life balance? Like, how would you advise on taking a look at both of those things and getting to the right, the right number, and then the right number of hours, and kind of that balance? Is there any kind of magic pill there?

Blair Ryan

Not quite, but I think there's an understanding your value and the value of your time. If you know, you're pulling back on salary a little bit, but it's coming with the freedom to spend more time with kids or take care of things that you haven't been able to take care of before, I think it's totally reasonable to expect kind of a pullback on that. But the flexibility that comes with it is what you have to measure against to decide what makes sense for you personally.

Ruth Ann Janson

Yeah.

Structure versus Evolution in a Small Business

Blair Ryan

For me, it was entirely worth it because I kind of knew, you know, in the next two years, when I came to Dove Agency was around the timeline that we were planning on starting a family. So I was forward-looking a little bit. You know, not like 10 years down the line, making life decisions based on it, but I did have that in mind when I was making changes.

Beth Bender

Yeah. Well, and just real quick, like I know that when we interview people, and from day one when we've interviewed people, because we've been a small company, we've never been able to say to somebody, "Here is your exact trajectory. You know, here is your path in this company." It's always been, when we interview, you understand you're coming in, and your role might change based on the needs of the business, and there is that, you know, and Natalie, as you said, kind of that all-hands-on-deck that that also comes with being willing to evolve. So, I'm going to throw in a question that Ruth Ann, we didn't talk about, but-

Ruth Ann Janson

That's okay!

Beth Bender

... you know, that, that sense of evolving with a company as the company evolves versus kind of a straight predictable path, where do you feel like, you know, personality-wise in terms of retaining talent? Do you think that there is a, you know, like an intrinsic, what's the word? Like, personality type, or characteristic of somebody to want to go into one or the other lane as they think about family and career and all, all the possibilities?

Natalie Forehand

Yeah, I mean, I personally think it has to be somebody that is like willing and wants to learn. I think that like-

Beth Bender

That's a good- that's a good point.

Natalie Forehand

... this is just kind of like a little bit outside, but I, I think that something Blair and I like talk about a lot is obviously like, oh, we're in very, very different roles, but like we get to collaborate a lot because we're such a small company, that by no means could I wake up tomorrow and do any part of Blair's job [laughs]. Don't get me wrong. Don't get it wrong. But I am exposed to a lot more that I don't think that a lot of people get in like a larger company. But it also leads to relationships of like Blair, and I work in very different roles in our jobs, but we're both raising young kids at like a young age, and we both like want to continue on in our career. And we have this very small gap of time that like we know it's not going to last forever, and I think that that goes back into like Ruth Ann's questions about just like salary and flexibility and what does that look like. Like, I know that if I came to Ruth Ann tomorrow and said, you know, like, "Okay, you know, my kids are getting older, and they're in school more, and they're doing these things. Like, I'm ready to like take up more work and more time," and that would be another conversation.

Beth Bender

Yeah. Yeah.

Natalie Forehand

So I think it's always just like the willingness to continue those, but if you're not the type of person that's coming in and like wants to learn from others and wants to be able to jump in on different tasks and, and h- lend a helping hand, it's just not always the person that you, you want to have those conversations with when that time does come, even if they're anticipating it being soon or not.

Blair Ryan

And I think on the financial services side, you know, we have some people who want to change things up and like the flexibility of that. I put myself more in that category. A little bit of thriving in chaos and tackling the unknown fits what I like to do, but we do have other team members who like a status quo. This is what I want to be doing: a predictable workflow, and there's room for both. It's just important to communicate which one works for you up front.

Dynamics of Remote and In-Person Work Environments

Ruth Ann Janson

Yeah. That's a really, that's a really... I love that. I like the way you said that. What about I want to move to a little bit of a different topic, which is, you know, very, you know, I guess topical if you will, around remote work. I mean, this is such a big part of everyone's life now. And what are things to consider in a remote work environment, things that are positive about that? What are things to consider in the in-person environment? Like, how would you kind of frame where you sit on that? Like, any advice to, you know, anyone listening to this in terms of what makes the remote environment great? What do you miss in the in-person, and kind of like vice versa?

Blair Ryan

I like the face-to-face that comes with the remote that we do have systems and software set up, where you can just call someone with video on, and it's the same as walking into their office if you were in person. I think there's such great context in conversations that you can get when you see people, and I... Sometimes that gets lost in a remote environment. I feel like that we all just turn on our videos immediately, makes communication clear and also gives you that in-person connection, being seen and heard.

Beth Bender

Do you think that that should be kind of a standard, do you think in companies? I mean, is that part of retaining talent, is making them feel connected in that way? Or t- elaborate on that a little bit.

Blair Ryan

I think so. Not to say that you have to have your video on every time someone is calling you, but it does make it feel more personable, like there is an established relationship there. I prefer it every time, and if I don't have my video on, I'm very quick to tell someone, "I don't have my video on because there's kids running in the background and it's distracting," or "I'm under the weather." But, you know, giving the context as to why you're not, because it does make it more high-touch when you can see someone's face.

Beth Bender

Right.

Natalie Forehand

I think a little bit it goes back to the personality aspect as well, Beth, of, like, who you're looking for. Like, if you are in a remote working situation like us for the majority of the time, if you're not the personality that has the willingness of, like, "I'm going to jump on this call with this person, and I'm going to have my video on and get to know them," and not just take the way of like "I'll just send them a quick Slack," and kind of get past this task that I'm pushed. So, you have to have the willingness to say, "I'm going to jump on this, and I'm going to get to know new people," because it's not often that, especially, company-wide that we're, we're all together. It's special when we are, but that's just not always the case.

Mentoring, Peer Relationships, and Team Management

Ruth Ann Janson

Well, I think that's a really good segue to, like, our final point, which is kind of around mentoring and kind of relationships with peers. You know, how those can be fostered in the remote environment, and just more generally, how important are those types of relationships when you're thinking about, you know, staying in a position or when somebody's kind of going into an interview, how should they be thinking about mentoring and peer relationships and the importance of those in a work environment? Blair, I'm going to make you answer it. [laughs]

Blair Ryan

Well, I just think from interviewing from the candidate side and looking at the people you're going to be working with, and making sure that you feel like you're being invested in. I know I can speak for myself at Dove Agency, that I know I'm invested in and that my perspective matters, but also that people care about my family and how everyone's doing. I think that's important to me, and if it's important to you, then you want to make sure you're vetting that out with a potential employer, with a potential candidate, that you all can have that, have that relationship. And then from peer to peer, there's just something comforting that I can call Natalie and ask her a question that a financial client has about public relations services, and I can answer that, but also that I can call her about three-year-old boys and what they're up to. That there's camaraderie in that.

Beth Bender

[laughs] Yeah. Well, and Natalie, I mean, you started, like you s- like we said at the beginning, as an intern. I mean, we've watched you grow from an intern now to your role of managing others. And so, you know, you've seen that growth in a small company. What do you look for now in somebody you're going to manage? Like, is there something that you want to see, having been through the whole process?

Natalie Forehand

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think, and it's something that I tell every new, like, straight out of school person that, that comes to us, is that, organization is such a huge thing at our firm. But more than that it's, it's the willingness to say, like, "Okay, I haven't done this before, but we're a small team, and I'm going to give it my first go at this, and, it- I'm probably going to get it wrong." And, for me to be able to be there and be like, "You are probably going to get it wrong, but, w- that this is how it we're going to learn, and this is how you're going to feel confident in doing it next time." And so I like to share that, especially with, like, the very young ones that come on, and just say, you know, I, I look back as it was such a huge blessing to me to be able to have my hands in all the things. And I, I remember, I'm sure I was very overwhelmed at the time as an intern and a, a, a s- maybe even more pressure when I graduated, and I was-

Beth Bender

You didn't show it

Natalie Forehand

... taking on more time. [laughs]

Beth Bender

You handled it with grace. [laughs]

Natalie Forehand

But I look back and I, I truly, like, I again could not wake up tomorrow and do B's job. I couldn't do Katie's job. But I've had the privilege to, like, really find what I love doing and also have other skill sets that, again, I couldn't fully do on my own, but I can take those things with me throughout my career. And having the ability to say, "I got to try all these things, and this is what I, I know that I enjoy doing and that I know that I'm good at," and really hone in on that, is such a gift that I, I think a lot of people don't get i- you know, not going to a small agency, like The Dove Agency, where they do get exposure to so many different things.

Conclusion and Closing Quote

Ruth Ann Janson

Yes. That's perfect. Well, that's actually, we went over, guys, which is good because there was so much great material here. But that really segues into a nice little quote, Natalie, 'cause you're talking about training other people. And we love to do a quote at the end, which is this one by, this is from Richard Branson, "Train people well enough so they can leave. Treat them well enough, so they don't want to leave." So, thank you both, and again, we had Blair Ryan, senior director on the financial services side, and Natalie Forehand, senior manager PR and marketing at The Dove Agency, and we're so grateful that you could join us today.

Blair Ryan

Absolutely.

Natalie Forehand

Yeah.

Beth Bender

Thanks, guys.

Ruth Ann Janson

Thank you. All right.

Natalie Forehand

Bye, guys.

Beth Bender

Bye, everyone.